Thought Experiment

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 02/04/2019 at 18:32 • Filed to: None

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You are family with 50-something parents and three teenagers. You need a new vehicl e, or one that is no more than two years old. The catch: you must buy American, made in America . Does not have to me Made in America.™

What would you get? The ideal answer includes vehicles from different classes.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:36

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Telluride son , coz ‘Murrikia!

OK fine, Chevy Suburban.

For Sweden > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:37

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Ford Flex

CB > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:39

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American only? Probably a new Explorer.

benjrblant > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:40

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You are family with 50-something parents and three teenagers. You need a new vehicle, or one that is no more than two years old.

Oooh, this sounds fun.

The catch: you must buy American, made in America.

Nope. Hard pass.

punkgoose17 > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:40

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Chevrolet Traverse or the minivan of your choice.

ttyymmnn > benjrblant 02/04/2019 at 18:42

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That’s what I’m thinking. I was just interested to see what people recommended.

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:42

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Yukon Denali or Expedition. If money is no object, then Navigator.

I’m assuming they’re built here, I really have no idea.

SHARPSPEED > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:44

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...is it specifically for someone in the family or is it just the house chariot?

CaptDale - is secretly British > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:46

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You are family with 50-something parents and three teenagers. You need a new vehicle, or one that is no more than two years old

you must buy American, made in America.

If i have to....

lone_liberal > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:47

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Ford Transit? It’s made in various places but Wiki says American production is in K.C. 

nermal > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:47

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GT350. 

7:07 > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:48

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Chrysler Pacifica Touring-L Plus.  Comfy, easy to drive, economical on the freeway, panoramic sunroof, 360 camera, radar cruise.  Teenagers would probably hate it, though.

dogisbadob > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:49

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A C-Max or Transit

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:51

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Suburban or equivalent GMC, next!

ttyymmnn > WilliamsSW 02/04/2019 at 18:51

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I was wondering about that, whether actually built here should be part of the question. I honestly don’t have any interest in any American car, so I don’t even know what’s out there. 

AestheticsInMotion > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:51

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Top-trim model S. 

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:52

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Fuck you teenagers in the back seat... you’ll be driving your selves around soon anyways .

ttyymmnn > SHARPSPEED 02/04/2019 at 18:52

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It would be my DD. My ideal DD would be a GTI, but that doesn’t fit the thought experiment. Currently I am DD’ing our ‘03 Odyssey with 202k miles on it.

ttyymmnn > lone_liberal 02/04/2019 at 18:53

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That is actually on my own list, at least to look at. If I had to get another van, I’d probably go with a previous gen Odyssey or Sienna.

ttyymmnn > nermal 02/04/2019 at 18:54

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Not exactly a family car, but I’ll allow it.

ttyymmnn > 7:07 02/04/2019 at 18:55

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Their opinion doesn’t concern me. Does it have stow-and-go seats? I rode in a Caravan that had those seats and I thought they were horribly uncomfortable.

RallyWrench > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:55

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Do the three teenagers have to fit in the vehicle with the parents, at the same time? If not, the most reasonable car I can think of is a Mustang GT.

If you need people and stuff-carrying ability, a preowned Tahoe or Ecoboost Ford Flex would be appealing. Edit: Does being built in Canada rule out the Flex?

I’d suggest the new Chrysler minivan thing, but I refuse to endorse them in the long term because previous Mopar vans do not age well. Also  adults should be done with the minivan phase at 50 and get something they like (says the guy in the midst of it).

ttyymmnn > dogisbadob 02/04/2019 at 18:55

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Interesting...

TysMagic > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:56

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I hate what I’m about to suggest, but the model X fits.

facw > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 18:57

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That’s hard. I was going to say Pacifica, but apparently that’s built in Canada. The Flex has the same problem, and if I’m reading you right, I can’t say the Odyssey even though it’s the #2 car on cars.com’s American-Made index.

I guess I’d probably go with the Expedition, but I can’t say I’d be happy about it.

TysMagic > TysMagic 02/04/2019 at 18:57

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alternative, the Ridgeline is assembled in the US. 

RallyWrench > For Sweden 02/04/2019 at 18:58

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I have just learned that the Flex is built in Canada. Not sure if this is a deal breaker, it’s an otherwise good choice. 

ttyymmnn > AestheticsInMotion 02/04/2019 at 18:58

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shop-teacher > For Sweden 02/04/2019 at 18:59

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I was going to say this, but they're assembled in Canuckistan.

ttyymmnn > RallyWrench 02/04/2019 at 19:00

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Nah, I thought about ditching the Made In America™ requirement. I really don’t care, I just have no idea what American vehicles are out there, because I’m really not interested in anything American I’ve seen.

AestheticsInMotion > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:00

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Awww :(

facw > lone_liberal 02/04/2019 at 19:00

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That room would be nice, but I can’t help but feel that it would probably be too big, too crude, and too slow compared to most passenger vehicles.

facw > 7:07 02/04/2019 at 19:01

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Is disqualified for being Canadian (and maybe for being Italian/British).

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:01

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Suburban/Tahoe/Yukon for me. I was going to suggest an Ecoboot Ford Flex, but thems Canadian  it turns out.

ttyymmnn > facw 02/04/2019 at 19:01

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I should have taken the Made in America™ requirement off. I really don’t care if it’s made in Canada or Brazil or Mexico. I’m more interested in American makes. Because nothing I’ve seen interests me. I’m interested to see what Oppo suggests .

jimz > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:02

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Ford Flex.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:02

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Corvette duh, who doesn’t like divorce.

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher 02/04/2019 at 19:02

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Canadia is not a deal breaker. I should have left that off. 

ttyymmnn > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 02/04/2019 at 19:03

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I’m coming to my midlife crisis later than some. 

ttyymmnn > jimz 02/04/2019 at 19:03

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But ugly. Butt ugly.

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:04

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Clarification: what kind of family am I in that has 50 something parents instead of the usual two? This kind of communal parenting usually is found in societies that eschew motorized travel.

Anyway, my answer: I would buy a Corvette and drive it off a cliff to free myself from the nightmare you have painted me into.

Okay, real answer:  Pacifica.

RallyWrench > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:04

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Gotcha. The Flex is the closest thing to a full size wagon currently available, and I think they look pretty good for it. Never driven one, though. 

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 02/04/2019 at 19:05

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Can I get the Corvette and just drive it off into the sunset? You know, take a wrong turn and just keep goin ’?

ttyymmnn > RallyWrench 02/04/2019 at 19:06

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I’m not a fan. It looks like a monstrous Mini.

facw > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:07

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In that case, yeah I’d say the Pacifica is the p ractical choice (assuming we still want to call Chrysler an American brand ) while the Ecoboost V6 Flex would provide a decent amount of room, in a somewhat more fun package.

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:08

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No.  Hands off my imaginary Corvette.  I don’t want any theoretical fingerprints on it.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:10

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This:  https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-chevrolet-tahoe-2/

dogisbadob > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:10

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I just remembered about the Tesla Model S. It meets your requirements (American car company , made in California) and is one of only two new cars sold in the US with a rear-facing third seat* :o)

(the other is the E-Class wagon)

Also, I saw your edit that it doesn’t have to actually be made in America. That opens up a couple more options: the Transit Connect (made in Spain) and the Regal TourX (made in Germany). In fact, you can probably get a really good deal on a Tourx

ttyymmnn > dogisbadob 02/04/2019 at 19:12

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I did not know about the TourX. On first look, that is a very attractive vehicle, and I’ve always had a soft spot for wagons (see my lead photo). Thanks.

RallyWrench > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:14

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Fair enough, I can see that comparison . Sn210 has a lowered one in a dark maroon with a black roof that I think looks pretty cool for a people carrier.

SHARPSPEED > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:18

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If it’s for you then is there wiggle room in your budget? If so, go nuts and snag a Challenger or a Raptor or whatever . Hell, there’s Chevy SS’s out there for less than 30K.

facw > TysMagic 02/04/2019 at 19:19

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The Model X third row looks a bit cramped to me to want to put teenagers back there. Maybe if they are short? The six-seater version is a little better from legroom standpoint, since there’s the open area between the middle seats, but you still have the sloping rear roof to contend with.

facw > dogisbadob 02/04/2019 at 19:20

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Those rear facing Model S seats aren’t made for teenagers though.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:22

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Well, I love the full size GM SUVs, but I bet a Flex (doesn’t have to be an Ecoboot, but those sure are fun) would be much more up your alley. They are the modern embodiment of the old full size wagons. So comfy. So roomy. I think they're pretty good looking too, especially with a two-tone roof.

7:07 > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:25

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Yes, stow and go seats are standard.  I’ve never sat in them, so I wouldn’t know.  They are super convenient for when we have to haul the harp around, though.  And the kids that DO sit in those seats don’t complain.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:47

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Is price an object?

If not, Tesla Model X or Model S.

If price is more of an object, I’d maybe go for a used Toyota Highlander or Honda Pilot, something like that.

LastFirstMI is my name > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 19:54

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3 Miatas. Room for 6 people, which is better than most sedans.

I guess they aren’t made in america though. But wasn’t Mazda owned  by Ford for a while, so that is an exemption to your rule.

dogisbadob > facw 02/04/2019 at 20:10

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None of third seats are, but it doesn’t stop them from being awesome :p

Matt Nichelson > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 20:18

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So many comments and not one mention of it, so I will. Lincoln Aviator. It may look a lot of ways to different people, but bland isn't one of them imo. It's like an American Range Rover Velar. 

promoted by the color red > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 20:24

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Easy, I’ll just get a diesel F350 FX4 like everyone in this town and drive 10 below the limit. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 20:31

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Explorer or Traverse?

Not a huge fan of suvs

Given how much room kids need I would go for another Odyssey, maybe used?  Also when looking at colleges, you’re going to want max volume.

facw > dogisbadob 02/04/2019 at 20:33

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Most companies (including Tesla with the X) at least maintain a pretense that you could fit an adult back there. The rear facing seats have a maximum weight of 77 lbs, and a height restriction as well, only suitable for the smallest teenagers.

Khalbali > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 21:01

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The new aviator, or the navigator if you need the extra cargo space.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 21:19

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Dodge Durango 

Stopcallingmesir > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 21:27

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Always go for the GM in my book. Equinox probably tolerable, Traverse a bit wider so more space without needing to use row 3 for 5. GMC equivalent probably nicer, but dont waste your money on th e Buick

ttyymmnn > SHARPSPEED 02/04/2019 at 21:29

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It would be my (hypothetical) DD, but I’ve never been a fan of these new muscle cars. Now an Impala SS would be fun. Personally, I’m a Euro hatch guy, but not since my Golf got totaled by a drunk and I was relegated to DD’ing the Odyssey. Which, I must say, isn’t that bad. It’s got power to spare, and I’ve driven it all over the country. Honestly, I’ll drive that until it falls apart.

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher 02/04/2019 at 21:29

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I am simply not a fan of the Flex, at least not on the outside. I think it looks like a monstrous Mini. 

ttyymmnn > 7:07 02/04/2019 at 21:31

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My step mom has the Caravan, and I rode for about 30 minutes in it and was miserable. We tend to take 12-16 hour road trips, and I wouldn’t want anybody to sit in that seat for that long. It would be tantamount to child abuse. 

ttyymmnn > BaconSandwich is tasty. 02/04/2019 at 21:37

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I drove a Pilot when we bought our Civic a couple of years ago. I did not hate it. But I’ve never been much of an SUV guy. This is more of a thought experiment than a purchasing project, and I never know how much I want to spend until I see what I can get for what kind of money, if that makes sense. Any vehicle purchase is probably still two years off. This is more of “let’s see what kind of American cars Oppo likes,” since the last American car I bought was a 96 Dodge Stratus.

ttyymmnn > Matt Nichelson 02/04/2019 at 21:38

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Guy down the street has one. It is distinctive, to be sure. Honestly, I’m hoping to hang on to the Oddy for long enough that I can replace it with a hot hatch for myself and not have to worry about carrying kids. 

ttyymmnn > promoted by the color red 02/04/2019 at 21:39

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A friend of mine just traded in his F350 that he started paying for a couple of years ago in favor of a loaded 2018 Civic. His car payment is now significantly lower. 

ttyymmnn > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 02/04/2019 at 21:42

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I am definitely not a fan of SUVs. Never have been. To your third sentence, that’s my problem. The 2003 Oddy will likely crap out just when Son 1 starts going to college. So yes, I’ll need room to haul his shit. Then we could potentially have kids in college for a total of 7 years, which would mean getting 9 more years out of the Oddy. That’s not going to happen. So I don’t want to get stuck buying another van when I won’t need it for all that long. And I like keeping my vehicles well after they are paid off.

So yes, we will likely be looking at a two year old Oddy, but I think the latest ones are hideous and bulky and overbuilt, just like all the new Hondas. Which is why I’ll probably be looking at a Sienna. 

ttyymmnn > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/04/2019 at 21:44

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Probably the more attractive vehicle in that segment, but I’ve never been much of a Dodge/Chrysler guy, even though I once owned a 96 Stratus. I never liked that car. But that was a long time ago.

ttyymmnn > Stopcallingmesir 02/04/2019 at 21:45

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I’ve always been a GM fan. I never owned one, but grew up with them.  Owned one Dodge (96 Stratus) and didn’t care much for it. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 21:54

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Of all the 5+ passenger cars out there it’s the one I’d be most likely to enjoy owning. With the 5.7 and the paddle shifted ZF8  gearbox. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 21:56

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False 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > jimz 02/04/2019 at 21:56

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Only it’s it has the Ecoboost and is a 2013 or newer. 

ttyymmnn > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/04/2019 at 21:58

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There are certainly different opinions on that one. That happens to be mine.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 22:19

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I think they're hands down the best looking people mover in production.

SHARPSPEED > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 22:43

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Is an Impala SS a thing or are you just being snarky about the Chevy SS’s design? Either way y ou can do much better than the Enterprise Rental’s “Premium” car.

If your taste is in Euro hatches and (presumably) just Euro stuff in general why are you limiting yourself to ‘ murica? If it’s for you get what you want, or at least works best. This is gonna be your steed of choice, homie. Don’t put arbitrary limits on yourself.

ttyymmnn > SHARPSPEED 02/04/2019 at 22:56

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No, when I think of Impala SS, I think of this. Remember, I’m the 50-ish dad in this scenario.

T his is a thought experiment, not necessarily a plan of action. The last American car I bought was a 96 Dodge Stratus, and otherwise have owned VWs and Hondas. I simply don’t pay attention to what American car makers are doing since I haven’t seen anything that excites me in the last few years. Oppo is a rather educated and informed community, and I value the hive’s opinion. I was just interested to see what they came up with. Interestingly, somebody did come up with the Regal TourX, and I like the way this looks, but probably because it’s built in Germany and shows the Opel influence. So, I must be getting old if I’m starting to like Buicks....

ttyymmnn > CaptDale - is secretly British 02/04/2019 at 23:05

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You see, this is exactly where I’m at. There is simply no American car that interests me. They’re all big bloated behemoths. Though somebody suggested the Buick Regal TourX, which is really a Vauxhall or Opel or something, I can’t keep it straight any more . Which means that I really like the way it looks. I guess it’s American in badge only.

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 23:11

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Really you need to think long and hard about whether you need a 3rd row or not. If you can say “ no” to that, it opens a hell of a lot more options than “ yes” does. Yes boxes you in to giant SUVS and minivans almost exclusively. 

SHARPSPEED > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 23:32

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Ah, that thing . Forgot about it. Well I’m referring to it’s sorta-successor :

But I now 100% say you should go for the TourX because that thing deserves *something* before GM axe s it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 02/04/2019 at 23:50

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We rented a Dodge Caravan Crew when we visited Texas that (hot) summer and I liked it and it got good gas mileage. 110 VAC electrical outlets and plenty of storage and stowage. I’d look for one several years old so well depreciated and they probably don’t hold their value very well, so not very expensive, relatively. And several years old maybe with fewer highly technological bells and whistles.

09GT - now boosted > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 04:04

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You can’t see it from the inside - which BTW is a very nice place to be - definitely more Lincoln than Ford. And if you splurge you can get 365hp and AWD. I regret not getting ours a few years earlier - best road trip car for a family of 5 this side of a minivan-  but better late than never!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > benjrblant 02/05/2019 at 07:24

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one that is no more than two years old.

Lost me at this.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 07:25

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Yes.

Agreed, SNG is terrible. If I don’t want to ride in them , I’m not putting my kids in them, who wants to deal with 3 uncomfortable kids on a road trip?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 07:29

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You need a new vehicle, or one that is no more than two years old.

Count me out, unless we’re travelling back in time to the early 90s or late 60s. I can’t think of a single new/newer vehicle I would want to my money on.

If I could get the Transit Connect in the top trim, without the touchscreen I’d maybe be able to be swayed. Or a Grand Caravan GT with the base model interior.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 07:30

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The Transit Connect is by far the best driving minivan available right now, my only real complaint is the lack of a V6, but the 4 cyl does surprisingly well.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > TysMagic 02/05/2019 at 07:31

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Makes sense to use a minivan for carrying people.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 02/05/2019 at 07:31

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The Explorer/Traverse/etc are just sliderless minivans.

ttyymmnn > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/05/2019 at 08:18

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The seats in my 03 Odyssey are fantastic. Those long rides are quite comfortable. 

ttyymmnn > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/05/2019 at 08:18

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That’s what I’m thinking.

ttyymmnn > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/05/2019 at 08:19

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I’d have to see about that 4. My Odyssey has the 6 cal V-TEC (Yo) and it’s got power to spare and then some. I love it. 

ttyymmnn > WilliamsSW 02/05/2019 at 09:05

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I fear I may have painted myself into a corner. The thought experiment isn’t entirely theoretical, since I do need to replace my Odyssey at some point, but I just rebuilt the transmission and hope to have it for at least two, hopefully three years to offset the cost of the repair. I have a sophomore who will be going to college in two years and, with twins who are three years younger, we could be going back and forth to college for seven years starting in 2021. My wife has a 2013 Civic, bought used, that we still have two years to pay on.

So, if I wait two years to replace the van in 2021, we’ll have a new/used car payment on top of college tuition. My wife’s Civic will be 8 years old, though it will be paid off. We like to keep our cars as long as possible, and she doesn’t drive it much (though my sophomore will be driving it eventually), so I expect that car will be around for a while, barring any catastrophes. If I wait until 2021, then any new people mover will likely be financed for five  years and paid off before the end of seven years of college, but then I’ll be looking to ditch it for something more me-friendly, which would mean an almost immediate resumption of payments, and by then my wife’s Civic will NEED to be replaced, and we’re back to two car payments.

It almost makes sense to replace the Odyssey NOW (I would keep it for the teens to drive) when the Civic is close to being paid off. Then we’d have two years of double car payments, but not while we’re paying tuition. Then the new vehicle will be paid off during the college years, and I can look to dump it in 2028 (!!) after having gotten (hopefully) lots of use out of it (remember, I’m rocking a 16-year-old Odyssey). Plus, if I wait until 2021 and want to get a two-year-old Odyssey, I’d have to get the current generation and I hate the way the current gen looks and drives. I am almost certainly going to replace it with another van, but I don’t want a lumbering SUV, and I honesty don’t know if a Pacifica or other American van will last nine years. Or more.

Lots of “ifs,” and I worry that I’ve painted myself into a corner. But as much as I like not having car payments, let alone two, it is starting to look like now is a better time to buy than later.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 09:11

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Have you looked on Edmunds dot Com to see what the Blue Book value of the Odyssey is? Methinks you’ll do well just to get the cost of the transmission for the van.

Also, can we look into the Caravan Crew? Just one of the most sensible cars I’ve driven in years.

The Safari has been fantastic , but its like five years older than your Oddy and I’ve done many wrenchings to it over the years.

Remember: investment though this may be, ROI is but a scant consideration, other than dependability and longevity. Cars cost. There’s no free ride.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/05/2019 at 09:44

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My 03 Odyssey isn’t going away. I plan to keep it as long as possible. It will be the vehicle that the kids drive. I’ll get minimum insurance (but not for personal injury) and keep it going. Then, in a few more years, if it’s still running, I’ll sell it for a few hundred bucks to some local painter.

I will look at the Crew. I am no fan at all of stow and go seats. We may still take road trips in this vehicle, and I wouldn’t want anybody to have to sit in those long term.

ROI is no consideration at all for me. Hell, I’m driving a 16-year-old van. As I was driving home from taking Son 1 to school, the idea of leasing crept into my brain. I know it’s a perpetual car payment, but it would be a lower payment. Might be worth factoring into any decision, just to make sure I cover all possibilities. 

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 10:00

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Well, maybe a little bit, now that you’ve fixed the transmission on the Odyssey, but I don’t think it’s as bad as you think. Driving the Odyssey as long as you possibly can will continue to save you money - you might end up with car payments and tuition in a few years, but you’ll have more savings banked from avoiding the payments right now . It might *feel* more painful to have car payments and tuition, but you’ll actually be better equipped to do it.

Plus, if you can manage to get the Odyssey through a year or two of college, you may find that you really don’t need as big a vehicle as the Odyssey - 95% of the time, you’ll never have more than the two of you and the twins in the car. A mid-sized crossover or wagon might be enough, saving further $.

Some of that depends on where they all go to college, of course — but you can rent a van, make 2 trips, or bring 2 cars for as infrequent as those trips will be.

Is the buy American thing real, or is that part truly a thought experiment? I would look closely at the Big 3, as they can be cheaper up front, but I wouldn’t limit myself to them, personally.

FWIW, we now have a 2.5 year old, and another on the way in May - and my wife is now insisting that we’re going to need a 3 row vehicle after the baby comes (mostly because she likes to ride in the back with baby) . And I just bought the Mercedes last year. I get that it’s a fake ‘need’ for us, but the current thinking is that we may get something big - albeit likely replacing the Pathfinder that just sleeps in the driveway. I haven’t driven any of them, but I would lean towards a Sienna or Odyssey if we went with a van, or some big SUV (Lincoln Aviator would be my dream, Explorer is more likely, but I’d want to buy certified used again ).

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 10:02

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Leasing isn’t the worst thing in the world - *especially* if you see yourself only needing that van for a fixed period of 3 or even 6 years (for 6 years, you’d just lease twice).  Then you’re free and clear to get a GTI after the lease is up!